Will HP Make Real Calculator Again?

[Giancarlo]

it is clear that the whole world changed and the calculator market was squeezed between smartphone apps and laptops.
I don't know if there will be other (hp) calculators for professional in the future; while i really would like that this happens, i can also think about alternatives like:
1) use our professional old Hp calculators (hp41, hp15, hp48, hp49, hp50, Primes...)
2) buy the new (old) calculators that Moravia anticipated in a video last months (london meeting or hpcc in US); they told they are going to sell new hp15 and other may appear on the way.
3) repourpose old calculators (i saw very interesting presentations in Allschwill) about swissmicros c43 and maybe we can expect in the future a hp48 in a swissmicros body.
4)...

To me it has much to do with a positive attitude; it's not useful to complain about the situation; we see that calculators are no more used also in offices. We have to focus on what is available and what it could be available soon.

I saw a very positive attitude in Allschwil this year like probably few times before; we are in an era where everything is possible (from an hw point of view) we just need to focus on our objectives and support the comunity.

Thanks

Giancarlo

[pier4r]

(12-07-2022 12:46 AM)Rolief_Rechner Wrote:  So I try the Prime.
Unworthy of HP label.
It rests unused.

Sell it! Someone else may find it useful! It is better than trashing working items.

[Thomas Klemm]

(12-27-2022 11:19 AM)pier4r Wrote:  Sell it! Someone else may find it useful! It is better than trashing working items.

Another suggestion:

(12-27-2022 10:55 AM)lvt Wrote:  This would be the most beautiful and my favorite paperweight ☺️

[pier4r]

About the "when the next calculator will come out" or rephrased with "is the calculator market dying", I think it is a pretty recurring topic. So let's add another +1.

What are some realistic use cases for calculators?

1. Students on the go.
2. Students at home.
3. Professionals on the go.
4. Professional in the office.

Let's try to examine the various cases.

1. Students on the go.
Could well be that the exams regulation admit only some calculators, so for a student it is better to get used to those. Further due to the curriculum being more or less stable since decades (school/university), the calculator does not really need any revolution. Most of the math is covered and devices since the late 90s are plenty powerful. Another problem could be: if the calc really get too powerful, students may get smart loading PDF and what not, so better to keep it limited. Example IIRC: the newer casio 9860 G II or III, the fx-cg series and maybe other devices have 8 mb of RAM, but only around 60k are available to the user, while the rest is for add in. An add-in is not easy to program, so the user will unlikely cram enough text in the calculator given the 60k of ram (one could use the flash storage, but things needs to be small enough to be recalled in ram). With 8mb of ram one could get wild with amount of notes and such.

At most what is needed is to find new components for a calculator as old ones may not be produced. I mean in this case something like: if I want to assemble a 50g again, I may find out that the CPU is not produced anymore, thus I cannot assemble a 50g. In other words calculators from the late 90s are limited only by the supply of components, rather than the features they carry.

Futher the calculator is still superior (in my opinion) due to the input possibilities and the compactness compared to a device with touchscreen or a laptop. Thus a student may prefer the calc for some workloads but when it gets to programming or tinkering for a long time, the majority of the students would turn to more capable devices. Thus once again there is no need for the calculator to get better in offered functionalities.

2. Students at home. See point 1. All the more reason for the student to turn to tablet/phones/laptops. I remember I myself in 2010 I used a zt180 with go48 to complement the 50g because the 10' was somewhat larger and easier to use, while still being at the same level of the table (rather than vertical, like a monitor of a laptop). Once again the calculator can help here but the need to improve is simply not there.

3. Professionals on the go. Like students: the calculator may already cover their needs, if not a company can produce solutions to cover their needs. If I am not wrong there were professional software adapted for the 48 and 50 series. If that does not work, since the era of PDAs there are enough powerful mobile devices (HP itself produced devices with 64 Mb of ram, of which surely around half user accessible, when calculators had 200-300kb) that the calculator can simply get superseeded. Of course a professional could cling to a calculator as I cling to the 50g for problem solving and fun, but that is not the market and the market dictates where development go.

4. Professional in the office. Even more than on the go, in the office professional may turn to something more than a calculator as soon as the need increase. I mean in 2022 we still use our calcs but we mostly develop using computers, so when time is money (rather than fun), people move on computers (or other devices) for serious tasks.

Therefore I don't see the market for calculators improving. I am already amazed that the 50g, the ti-89, the nspire series and the prime were released to be honest. Those have plenty of functionalities and hardware that in most cases will be left unused because more often than not people will pick other devices that offer the same (and more) functionalities. The casio (mostly 9860 series and the fx-cg series) are more "realistic" because they limit the available resources and the functionalities do not get expanded too much. Indeed the first 9860 had 60k of user accessible memory and the newest from 2022 has the same amount. Same with the numworks, that tries to keep the user accessible ram small.

I believe the only occasion where we will see new calculators is due a redesign caused by components discontinued, because otherwise they got most of what the market wants from them.

The only alternative are small companies like swissmicro, that build devices for enthusiasts.

[Siegfried]

(12-27-2022 06:53 PM)pier4r Wrote:  What are some realistic use cases for calculators?

1. Students on the go.
2. Students at home.

Some observations on student use of calculators:

One of my kids got a TI30-something financed by the PTA in the third grade of high school and never needed anything more advanced through high school as things beyond the TI30'x capabilities were done with GeoGebra, a very comprehensive maths app. For exams they used the school's computer room (which probably eliminated any possibility to access illicit materials).

Another kid was advised to buy a TI nSpire for a technically oriented school but hardly ever used it as most stuff was done on laptops anyway. He didn't even take it with him when he left for university.

Practically all HP Primes sold second-hand here (as well as TI nSpires , 92s and 200s) are sold as "used for school/university only" or even "used for a single exam only".

I don't do business with banks very often but the last time I got a quote for a loan everything was done on a PC in a web application with no HP12C or other calculator in sight. They probably figure that to be less error-prone than copying interest rates into a calculator and transferring the results into the app again when a deals is struck.

Newer HP10B models are sold quite frequently but those were probably bought for school use as well.