HP Prime Beta Firmware Version 2.2 Revision 15008

[dg1969]

(07-18-2024 12:32 PM)8031Brown Wrote:  Well, I definitely seem to be in the minority here. I suppose the herd goes where it goes.

In France, the entire national education system has placed the Python language at the center of initiation to coding, from second grade to preparatory classes for major engineering schools. So, it is difficult to sell a calculator here that does not have this option. Increasing sales volume is a necessary condition for the survival of this model…
Finally, if the Python code runs efficiently then I am also very happy to be able to use it... Writing and developing code on a PC then using this code on a calculator is very interesting.

[Dougggg]

(07-18-2024 12:32 PM)8031Brown Wrote:  Maybe, I should just let it go? Or drop my HP Prime in the trash.

Or you could ignore python is there, the hp prime has a lot of memory

[Tyann]

Bonjour
Python sur Hp Prime a 2 facettes, il y a l'application qui est je pense plutôt pour l'apprentissage et il y a l'implémentation sous forme d'un second langage en plus de PPL qui est un vrai plus selon moi, bien qu'actuellement je ne l'utilise pas.
Aucun langage n'est parfait et chacun des 2 a sûrement des avantages et des inconvénients, pouvoir combiner les 2 est très intéressant.
Hp prime est la seule a avoir cette implémentation avec la possibilité de dialogue entre les deux langages.
Par contre de ces discussions il ressort selon moi que la possibilité de désinstaller les applications que l'on n'utilise pas serait bienvenue.

Hello
Python on HP Prime has 2 facets, there's the application which I think is more for learning and there's the implementation in the form of a second language in addition to PPL which I think is a real plus, although I don't use it at the moment.
No language is perfect and each of the 2 certainly has its advantages and disadvantages, but being able to combine the 2 is very interesting.
Hp prime is the only one to have this implementation with the possibility of dialogue between the two languages.
On the other hand, it seems to me from these discussions that the ability to uninstall applications that you don't use would be welcome.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

[ctrclckws]

(07-18-2024 12:32 PM)8031Brown Wrote:  Maybe, I should just let it go? Or drop my HP Prime in the trash.

Just curious, do you have a smartphone? A Windows computer? possibly even an Apple computer?

How many applications come installed on those devices that you personally will never use?
Of those, some will be removable, some you can disable, but not remove, and some, you just have to ignore.

Years ago, I noticed that an Uber app was being updated on my phone, I had never installed it, had never heard of Uber, mostly, I ignore it.

We don't necessarily have full ownership and control of our devices anymore.

[RPNerd]

(07-18-2024 05:11 PM)Tyann Wrote:  Bonjour
Python sur Hp Prime a 2 facettes [...]

Entièrement d'accord.

J'ai reçu la une bonne partie de mon enseignement secondaire (et supérieur) en France, ce qui me donne un avantage par rapport aux autres ici : je connais bien le système scolaire de ce pays.

En effet, le python est le langage préféré dans l'enseignmenent en France, et la HP Prime cherche à pénétrer le marché de l'enseighnement plutôt que les professionels/ingénieurs. Il est donc logique que la HP Prime "parle" le python pour faciliter l'accès au marché français sans pour autant l'exclure d'autres marchés.

Sa présence ne gène pas le fonctionnement des autres applis préinstallées. On peut simplement l'ignorer si on ne s'en sert pas (c'est mon cas, par exemple).

------------------

Agreed 100%.

Most of my secondary (and higher) education took place in France, which gives me an advantage over others here in that I know the education system of that country.

Python is indeed the language of choice in the French education system(*) and HP is aiming at the student market with the Prime. It is therefore logical that the Prime should "speak" python if it wants to get a foot in the door over there without excluding it from other markets.

The python app doesn't get in the way of others that are bundled with the Prime. You can safely ignore it if you don't use it (I do!).

(*) - many years ago there was a project initiated probably by the Académie Française to standardise a language called "LSE" (Langage Spécial pour l'Éducation) that looked like Pascal with keywords translated into French. It was an abomination that never took off.

[toml_12953]

(07-19-2024 09:36 AM)RPNerd Wrote:  (*) - many years ago there was a project initiated probably by the Académie Française to standardise a language called "LSE" (Langage Spécial pour l'Éducation) that looked like Pascal with keywords translated into French. It was an abomination that never took off.

How strange that a language named after a famous French mathematician/philosopher should be translated to French.

[RPNerd]

(07-19-2024 09:49 AM)toml_12953 Wrote:  How strange that a language named after a famous French mathematician/philosopher should be translated to French.

Point taken

This said, the Académie Française was very, very protective of the French language back then (we're talking about the mid '80s here). Radio stations weren't allowed to broadcast more than 40% non-French-language music, movies had to be dubbed in French (subtitles weren't good enough, apparently) to be broadcast on national TV... You get the picture.

I think the Académie Française realised they were fighting a losing battle when the internet took off in France in the late '90s. Until then, France Télécom was still pushing people to use the Minitel for their information needs and only really relented when everyone else in Europe had easy access to the internet.

[parisse]

Some remarks about Python.

The size of a typical arm32 MicroPython implementation is about 300K of code (perhaps a little more on the Prime because we have more modules than other manufacturers provide). If Python would not be included, this would reduce the amount of RAM available by about 2% on a G1 (300K of code copied in RAM on about 16M of free RAM) and less than 0.2% on a G2 (245M of free RAM). It does not change the flash storage size available to the user, because it's not on the same partition (on a G1 at least).

Personnally, I think that having more programming languages should be considered as a good thing. We have 3 langages on the Prime: Home PPL, CAS programs, and Python. I think a good addition in the future would be Javascript. I think this should be done independantly of one particular country curriculum, because this is fluctuant, not the same in all countries, and my guess is that many Prime users are buying a Prime because it's the best calculator on the market, not because it's recommended by their teacher. That's clearly the case for France at least.

Python was an important marketing point for selling calculators in France during the last 7 years, it certainly helped Numworks conquer more than half of the graphing calculator market in France. The reason is that someone at the Education Ministery decided about 7 years ago that programming should be done with Python in all highschools. But this is in fact communication, not reality, most high school students knows almost nothing in Python programming except for a few students who had passionate teachers or are themselves passionate.
Many highschools students have almost no programming lessons because the teachers are math teachers, not computer science teachers, and for those who teach programming, most are teaching Python on PC in the computer lab, not on calculators. In fact, you don't really need to program, if you look at the programming questions at the baccalaureat, it's always the same kind of questions about a recurrent sequence, the students does not have to write a complete function, he has just some blanks area to fill in an existing program or do some "reverse-engeneering" and guess what the function "mystery" does, which is very easy since it's related to a math question before.
Moreover, the program provided in the statement is most of the time badly written (for example, the program will loop forever for a range of arguments, or it will run in O(n^2) instead of O(n)), because the teachers who write the statements are math teachers and have no training in computer science. This year one of the two statements had no programming question, and this will certainly convince many math teachers to shrink the time devoted to teach programming.

I think that forcing *math* teachers to teach programming *exclusively* with Python is a big failure, comparable to the educational failure of the "maths modernes" in the 70's. The situation before Python was imposed was I think much better for most students, because the teacher could choose the language. Most teachers were using a much simpler programming language named algobox, and only those teachers that were really comfortable with Python used Python. You can't really teach if you are not comfortable with what you teach.

[ldesnogu]

(07-19-2024 08:57 PM)parisse Wrote:  I think that forcing *math* teachers to teach programming *exclusively* with Python is a big failure, comparable to the educational failure of the "maths modernes" in the 70's. The situation before Python was imposed was I think much better for most students, because the teacher could choose the language. Most teachers were using a much simpler programming language named algobox, and only those teachers that were really comfortable with Python used Python. You can't really teach if you are not comfortable with what you teach.

When I was at university, more than 35 years ago, one of our CS teachers was a math teacher. He was the only one to give me a below average rating during all my stay at U. He was unable to understand why I wrote a longer than he expected program to get better complexity. That can’t be generalized to all math teachers who switched to CS, but that nonetheless taught me a lesson: even as a student you have to adapt your level to some incompetent teachers (the good side is that they are a minority, but a minority that can harm motivated students).

[John P]

I agree with Mr. 'parisse'. I do not use Python. I use mostly PPL and CAS, but who knows. If I have more time I probably learn Python and will see. I just got new HP PRIME G2 and I like it, it is much faster than my old HP PRIME G1, and that is good. Why not use Python, it is a popular language and if it can work on HP PRIME, by all means implement and improve it. I am waiting for CAS update or upgrade with bugs corrected and improved etc. Definitively, work on HP PRIME should be continued. Too bad, HP stopped caring for HP PRIME because it is close to fantastic calculator that needs more love from HP.

[KlaasKuperus]

(07-17-2024 08:12 PM)jonteague Wrote:  Hi Klaas,

Are the macOS versions of the connectivity kit and (more relevant to me) the Prime Virtual going to be released with the new firmware too? The macOS Virtual Prime is still on 2.1.14425.

Cheers,
Jon.

Absolutely. It's in progress!

[KlaasKuperus]

Please see the new updated version of the beta, version 1504: https://www.moravia-parts.com/hp-prime/beta-b.html

Python App
- - - - - -
1. Non-ASCII characters are now better supported in message boxes and in output to the terminal. [PBT339,PBT454,PBT456]
2. Pressing the Esc or Num key after editing malformed Python scripts no longer causes a crash. [PBT191,PBT391]
3. Pressing Shift+Symb or Shift+Num now shows an alert, rather than causing crashes, freezing, or leaving the interface in an inconsistent state. [PBT390,PBT396]
4. Returning to the Numeric view after printing to the terminal from outside of Python no longer causes a crash. [PBT441]
5. Keypresses now enter uppercase letters when the A..Z annunciator is shown and lowercase letters when the a..z annunciator is shown. [PBT395]
6. An excessively large or small stack or heap size is no longer accepted when entered (excessively large or small stack or heap sizes may causes crashes). [PBT446,PBT450]
7. Resetting specific fields in the Plot setup view no longer affects other fields.
Displayed checkboxes now better align with actual settings. [PBT447,PBT448,PBT449]
8. Filenames that contain many non-ASCII characters are now also considered for automatic
opening on import failures. [PBT455]
9. User-defined PPL app functions Plot() and Num() are now taken into account when the
Plot or Num key is pressed. [PBT453]

Home View
- - - - -
1. Copying a value with nested exponents no longer rearranges the parentheses. [PBT17]
2. Entered expressions and calculation results can now be loaded from work files. [PBT14]
3. User-created variables and functions can now be loaded from saved work files. [PBT466]
4. The Matrices checkbox now controls whether matrices are included in saved work files.
[PBT465]
5. Deleting all saved work files when in the Load Work dialog no longer causes a crash.
[PBT463]
6. Checkboxes are now updated in the Load Work dialog after deleting a work file via the
Delete menu button. [PBT467]
7. Using an invalid name for a work file no longer brings the interface to an
inconsistent state and / or causes a crash. [PBT469]
8. Pressing the Base key when the last value on the history stack is not an integer no
longer results in # appearing in place of the Edit Integer window. [PBT238]

Function App
- - - - - - -
1. The calculator no longer becomes unresponsive when attempting to plot a function with
a doubly-parenthesized exponent. [PBT404]

Statistics Apps
- - - - - - - -
1. Delete Row with Clear or Del now deletes the entire row rather than a single cell.
[PBT183]
2. Delete Row with Del from a column header no longer deletes the column. [PBT186]
3. The Statistics 1Var horizontal lines in a control chart brought up on the first boot
of a fresh calculator are no longer miscoloured. [PBT358]

Solve App
- - - - -
1. Entering an empty Num view with a custom Symb view no longer causes a crash. [PBT452]

Geometry App
- - - - - - -
1. Deleting the last Num view entry via the Plot view no longer causes a crash. [PBT256]

PPL
- -
1. The app program now starts out as a PPL program. [PBT164]
2. Calling LINE or LINE_P with two or more empty lists no longer causes a crash. [PBT223]
3. Calling LINE_P with three lists no longer causes a crash. [PBT224]
4. GET now behaves consistently on inputs which are outputs of QPI. [PBT228]
5. Evaluating STARTVIEW(2^32) no longer causes a crash on 64-bit environments. [PBT451]
6. RECT_P now uses the bottom right corner as the default for the x2 and y2 parameters.
[PBT175]
7. RECT_P will no longer silently not be fulfilled for large coordinates. [PBT176]
8. Conversion of numbers to text format via STRING now follows the number format
parameter over HDigits. [PBT205]
9. Passing empty lists as coordinates to RECT now returns Error: Invalid Input rather
than causing a crash. [PBT174]
10. Passing STRING an invalid separator argument no longer results in a garbled text
output. [PBT243]
11. A bug in which using PageDown/PageUp to certain target lines causes a crash has been
fixed. [PBT267]
12. Multiplication by i no longer differs from multiplication by 0+i. [PBT403]
13. Names of built-in functions containing Greek letters, and pi, are now case sensitive
with regards to their Greek letters. [PBT229]
14. Using store with a negative index to insert well past the end of a list no longer
causes a crash. [PBT168]
15. Conversion of complex numbers with infinite real components to text now includes their
imaginary components. [PBT402]
16. The output of STRING no longer diverges from the number formatting used elsewhere when
the formatting is STANDARD and the precision is something other than 11 (or -1).
[PBT232]

Other Fixes
- - - - - -
1. Memory leaks have been addressed in the Vars and Toolbox catalog menus.
[PBT134,PBT135,PBT136,PBT137,PBT138,PBT139,PBT140,PBT141]
2. AFilesB no longer crashes when attempting to read a file of more than 10000 bytes.
[PBT154]
3. Entering a date in shortened format in Home Settings no longer causes undesirable
behaviour. [PBT193]
4. Entering a date in shortened format in the initial configuration screen no longer
causes crashes. [PBT196]
5. Calendar: Attempting to move the cursor beyond the bounds of defined dates no longer
causes a crash. [PBT199]
6. Hexadecimal code points of Unicode code points in the Chars palette are no longer
truncated. [PBT146]
7. Deleting a variable in Memory Manager now always deletes the chosen variable rather
than a different variable defined based on the chosen variable instead. [PBT213]
8. Attempting to delete a list variable with a younger copy via Memory Manager no longer
deletes the younger copy instead. [PBT230]
9. Attempting to delete a matrix variable with a younger copy via Memory Manager no
longer deletes the younger copy instead. [PBT231]
10. Dismissing the Edit Integer window in the equation editor no longer leaks memory.
[PBT244]
11. The Home/CAS command line height no longer remains short after returning from a search
in the Help tree view. [PBT300]

[Wes Loewer]

(07-18-2024 12:32 PM)8031Brown Wrote:  Maybe, I should just let it go? Or drop my HP Prime in the trash.

Instead of dropping it in the trash, please give it to a student who could use it. If you don't know of any, send it to me and my students will put it to good use. :-)

Just today, a student emailed me to ask about getting a Prime before school starts in a couple of weeks.

[chromos]

(07-22-2024 12:51 PM)KlaasKuperus Wrote:  Please see the new updated version of the beta, version 1504: https://www.moravia-parts.com/hp-prime/beta-b.html
...

That's quite a decent list of bug fixes. Thank you!

[compsystems]

In future versions, include NEW-RPL APP

[jonteague]

(07-22-2024 12:48 PM)KlaasKuperus Wrote:  

(07-17-2024 08:12 PM)jonteague Wrote:  Hi Klaas,

Are the macOS versions of the connectivity kit and (more relevant to me) the Prime Virtual going to be released with the new firmware too? The macOS Virtual Prime is still on 2.1.14425.

Cheers,
Jon.

Absolutely. It's in progress!

TY :-)

[Tyann]

Bonjour
Je viens d'installer cette nouvelle version et tout c'est bien passé.
J'ai jouer un peu avec l'application Python : tapé quelques petits scripts d'exemple tirés d'une initiation et n'ai eu aucun blocage ou plantage de ma G2, malgré pas mal d'erreurs de syntaxes de ma faute.
J'ai ensuite tapé ces mêmes script dans un programme Python dans l'éditeur de programmes et exécuté ceux ci par l'intermédiaire d'un programme PPL et là encore tout c'est très bien passé.
Tout cela est très prometteur et je pense maintenant que je vais pouvoir m'intéresser sérieusement à Python.
Merci pour cet excellent travail à toute l'équipe, vraiment une très bonne nouvelle.

Hello
I've just installed this new version and everything went smoothly.
I played a bit with the Python application: typed a few small example scripts taken from an introduction and my G2 didn't freeze or crash, despite quite a few syntax errors of my own making.
I then typed these same scripts into a Python program in the program editor and ran them through a PPL program and again everything went fine.
All this is very promising and I now think I'll be able to take a serious interest in Python.
Thanks for this excellent work to the whole team, really good news.



Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

[KlaasKuperus]

(07-22-2024 08:33 PM)Tyann Wrote:  All this is very promising and I now think I'll be able to take a serious interest in Python.
Thanks for this excellent work to the whole team, really good news.

Thank you for the nice words!

[G. Cook]

The title indicates that this is a "Beta" Firmware Revision release. When will the "Official" release be made?

[toml_12953]

(07-23-2024 05:05 PM)G. Cook Wrote:  The title indicates that this is a "Beta" Firmware Revision release. When will the "Official" release be made?

When it's ready?