Life span of an HP Calculator

[knife31]

Does anyone know what HP says is the projected life of an HP Calculator, and what the real-life span has been? Just musing.
Randy

[KeithB]

Many of us are still using the calculators we bought new. I am still using my HP-71(Early eighties), but I am sure there are others way older out there.

[knife31]

Ya
My oldest is a HP-45 I bought in 79 I think. Over the years I've bought a lot of swimming pools for the exec's at HP. Should have bought stock along with all those calculators.
Randy

[nickapos]

I think this is one of the factors people are missing when they say that calculators are dead or obsolete replaced by computers or tablets or phones. Most calculators are build to survive either school related abuse or even better harsh working environments. They are build to last decades.

I could not afford hps back in the days but I still have my university Casio and sharp calculators they are more than 30 years old and I don’t remember ever changing a battery. I gave my sharp to my nephews who are now starting high school.

Also I have got quite a few second hand hps that are in pristine condition.

[RPNerd]

(09-13-2024 04:21 AM)knife31 Wrote:  Does anyone know what HP says is the projected life of an HP Calculator, and what the real-life span has been? Just musing.

I'm still using an HP 35 from 1972, although I must get some deoxit (or equivalent) in the power switch because that's starting to go wonky. Also still in use is my HP 67 from 1977.

[borjam]

I own a HP-10C and a HP-16C from the 80's.

They still work perfectly.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

My oldest one that still works is an HP-35, first version, from 1972. It has a little issue with the power switich but apart from that everything works perfectly. But since I didn't own it all those 52 years I can't know how much it was really used.
After ca. 1980 I haven't seen many first generation LED calculators being actually used so I guess that it spent 40+ years dormant in a drawer.

[RPNerd]

(09-13-2024 08:33 AM)Maximilian Hohmann Wrote:  My oldest one that still works is an HP-35, first version, from 1972. It has a little issue with the power switich but apart from that everything works perfectly.

Does yours also have the brown leather case with the top flap held down with velcro?

Mine was a little rough when I first got it but I was able to nourish the leather with some shoe polish.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

(09-13-2024 08:57 AM)RPNerd Wrote:  Does yours also have the brown leather case with the top flap held down with velcro?

Mine was a little rough when I first got it but I was able to nourish the leather with some shoe polish.

Yes, I also have the case. It is still soft and smooth, so I guess it really didn't see much sunlight!

[Christoph Giesselink]

But what about the modern calculators with the calculator firmware in flash memory?

Most sources expect a life cycle of about 30 years before a flash memory without refresh may loose their data content.

[Maximilian Hohmann]

Hello!

(09-13-2024 10:19 AM)Christoph Giesselink Wrote:  Most sources expect a life cycle of about 30 years before a flash memory without refresh may loose their data content.

The problem is that there are very few devices with flash memory which are older than 30 years. Affordable flash memory for the consumer market only came about during the early 1990ies. So there will not yet be enough data to verify that 30year lifespan claim.

The oldest device with an operating system on flash memory in our household must be the washing machine from ca. 1995. But this does not count because it got it's water level sensor replaced about 10 years ago and the technician took the opportunity and updated or reflashed the ROM. So it now has another 20 years to run :-)

Regards
Max

[HPing]

I don't know of a failure mode for the old 12c.

Maybe decade-long battery life would be an issue for leaking batteries lol?

The USA models were badges of honor on Wall Street and have been trickling for sale to newer generations.

[AnnoyedOne]

When I was studying electronic/electrical engineering we were taught about the life of semiconductors, calculating MTBF (Mean-Time-Before-Failure) and so on.

https://www.eetimes.com/the-lifetime-of-...conductor/

These days consumer electronics has lifetimes measured in months, maybe years, so MTBF likely isn't even a factor these days.

For old calculators I'd guess that mechanical issues (keys, switches) would fail before the electronics did--on average.

Another factor, IMO, is that semiconductor failures often occur due to transients (e.g. power-on). Since many of the old calculators (e.g. the Voyager line) are continuously powered (only the display is turned "off"), as are most modern devices, I wouldn't expect the failure rate to be as high.

My 2c.

A1

[Thomas Radtke]

My oldest HP that I bought when the calculator came out was the 20S, but the most used one in this category is a 32SII (used throughout university and work until about 2010 or so). Both Pioneers which are a said to be a bit touchy when it comes to humidity (keyboard failures), but my samples are perfectly fine.

[Geoff Quickfall]

(09-13-2024 04:21 AM)knife31 Wrote:  Does anyone know what HP says is the projected life of an HP Calculator, and what the real-life span has been? Just musing.
Randy

Marketing plays a role in life expectancy of any product.

Consider Rolex’s infamous internal memo: “a Rolex sold is a lost customer”. They interpreted that their watches would last a lifetime and the customer would never come back for another as there was no need.

Then consider the restaurant with uncomfortable seating; think MacDonalds or an FAST food outlet. They don’t want lingerers holding the table without constantly buying their product.

Now lets move on to HP. They built electronics and were famous for their quality and design. But what did the market want; the latest and greatest if you could afford it.

Looking at the HP 35, 45, 55, 65, 67, 91, 92, 95, 97 , 19C (mostly) and the 41 (not the halfnut) they were all assembled with screws, connectors and modular parts. They were made to be repaired. Made sense for the money that was forked out for them back in the 70s and 80s.

Then you get to the Spice, Voyagers, Pioneers and (excuse me Richard Nelson) the stretch Pioneers and you find heat stakes, inoperable cases (requiring careful surgery) by design.

So marketing had differing ideas than the engineers that built them. Marketing wanted design obsolescence and unrepairable by the time the Voyagers came out. Fortunately for us the engineers built and designed nice calculators.

Examining the components, all the card reader versions die due to fossilization or goo-ization of the pinch rollers and couples. In the case of the Titans, the gooey printer wheel which needed a rethinking in later production models.

LCD screens that suffer from uv degradation of the polarizer filter or delamination of the LCD panel. These were not tested for life span before adding to the calculator.

So after that long winded, convoluted essay, lets add one more thing, technological change which is accelerating (was it doubling every 5 years? Can’t remember the label assigned to that).

This all comes down to a new calculator with increasing power every few years. Marketing wants you to purchase a new one and the engineers (initially) wanted them to last and last and last.

Who won that diametrically opposed view?

So my red dot 35 is one of the first. Had to clean it up but the LEDs and ICs and the few caps in it allow it to operate as new. But that was intervention. Purchased a 1984 HP 12, USA built. Suffered major fused battery leakage. Had to drill them out. Application of DeOxit red under the ICs as an experiment (thank you Katie Wasserman for that trick) and it is now fully functional.

My 1979 HP 41C tall keys had the keyboard die at 364 days since purchase. Got a new tall keys keyboard under the 1 year warranty. Now there’s a clue on longevity. A 1 year warranty!

So I am going to say, life expectancy is based on design, materials used, the introduction of the next best, and an argument between marketing and engineering.

I would suggest the earlier ones, were better built, but parts by law only need to be available at the manufacturer for 5 years.

So out on sort of a limb here but back to your question, materials, marketing, technologic advances, all combined to limit a calculators life span to about 5 years!

Do they last longer, yes, especially if taken care of (REMOVE THE BATTERY PACK WHEN NOT IN USE) and never by duraleaks.

If you made it this far, I will say the projected life USE of a calculator is driven by marketing and tech advance which is how I came up with 5 years. And of course, everything is disposable now.

Biggest concern now is the “RIGHT TO REPAIR”. A whole new topic as objects are now created to self destruct ala MISSION IMPOSSIBLE” if there is any tampering with the shell. Google “Right to repair”.

Deep breath and Cheers.

Geoff

[AnnoyedOne]

(09-13-2024 04:33 PM)Geoff Quickfall Wrote:  Marketing wants you to purchase a new one and the engineers (initially) wanted them to last and last and last.

Who won that diametrically opposed view?

From personal experience this is true. Which is why engineers and marketing/sales types are natural enemies. Opposing philosophies.

That said many companies are run by marketing/sales/financial types and any engineers are often locked away in back rooms. Out of sight out of mind. Again personal experience

A1

PS: I was once invited, by a marketing/sales person, to a meeting with a potential customer. After the meeting I said "You know our product doesn't do all those things right?". His response: "That's your problem not mine!" True story.

[KeithB]

"Which is why engineers and marketing/sales types are natural enemies. Opposing philosophies."

*Cough*Boeing*Cough*

[Geoff Quickfall]

(09-13-2024 04:48 PM)KeithB Wrote:  *Cough*Boeing*Cough*

Hi Keith!

Just a note, having flown 3 generations of Boeings over 35 years from the B737-200 (analog) to the Dreamliner 787 (fly by wire, composite and digital) there is a pilot perspective.

Here we have a mix of marketing, engineering, cheap pilot training, insurance and country rules.

1) Marketing:

- Sell aircraft.

2) Engineering

- Build aircraft

3) Airline

- Cost savings
- Which package to buy.
- training, what is the minimal cost you can get away with.

4) Insurance

- 2 billion dollar cost if you write off a B777 with 400 people on board.

5) Country regulations

- (who is in bed with whom?)


So with those 5 points above,

pm me

and I will let you know what happened with Lion Air and Ethiopian MAX aircraft. Both of which were models purchased at the lower end of the model line with respect to redundancy.

New tech with Boeing versus Airbus and how, with HP, new tech has design flaws which can be mitigated with the correct training and etc.

Cheers, Geoff

Just for a teaser, there was a mia culpa on the MAX debacle due to Marketing versus what was actually wrong with, not the airplane but…

[Matt Agajanian]

What I’ve noticed in relation to non-graphing student calculators is that some are sealed without an easily opened battery door and are low-budget-priced. So, I'm thinking that since particular models are so inexpensive, by time the calc has no more life in it, a replacement is cheap enough to justify buying a new one. A more beneficial scenario is that by time the battery is drained, a newer and greatly improved model is available. Thus making the need to purchase a replacement more appealing.

[KeithB]

We don't need to litigate it here, but Boeing's problems go well beyond commercial aviation.